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Today, we have a special guest on the podcast – Chelsey Goodan, the author of “Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls.” As a parent of three daughters, I am particularly eager to get into this discussion. If you share concerns about the influence of social media on your children (and let’s be honest, who doesn’t?), then this episode is for you.

The impact of social media on our youth is a pressing issue. With Congress currently mulling over a potential TikTok ban and local legislatures enacting laws to limit social media access for minors, the conversation around this topic is more relevant than ever. Every day brings new studies highlighting the detrimental effects of social media on our children’s mental well-being, often leading to heightened levels of depression, anxiety, and, tragically, even suicide.

Navigating these challenges as a parent striving to develop independent children can feel overwhelming. The desire to instill resilience in our kids while safeguarding them from the negative aspects of social media poses a significant dilemma. How can we strike a balance that protects our children while empowering them to thrive in a digital world?

In today’s episode, we will address these crucial questions and explore a lot of other related topics with Chelsey Goodan.

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsors:

Time Stamps:

  • 00:04:56 – The Power of Teenage Girls
  • 00:07:24 – Parenting Challenges
  • 00:12:19 – Listening is the First Step
  • 00:15:52 – Creating a Safe Environment
  • 00:19:20 – Kids as Separate People
  • 00:26:31 – Girls Feel Shame
  • 00:31:51 – Social Media and Perfectionism
  • 00:36:04 – Feelings vs. Labels
  • 00:39:24 – Connecting with “Older” Girls
  • 00:43:03 – Teen Girls and Sex
  • 00:56:28 – How We Affirm Our Daughters
  • 01:04:23 – Becoming Role Models for Young Women
  • 01:12:14 – Kids Outside of the Home
  • 01:16:11 – Growing With Our Children
  • 01:20:01 – Characterizing Power

Show Transcript:

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[00:04:03] Chelsey Goodan: Words like teen pregnancy or STD, you know, those are all scary words, but actually the words that have been really scary for people are orgasm, clitoris, and pleasure.

The, uh, slut shaming is a, Huge, huge issue. Adults love to dismiss teenage girls interest in fashion as some superficial, flighty thing. But many, many jobs are available in the fashion industry versus having a professional volleyball career. Gen Z is super cool. They aren’t just sitting around obsessing about the skinny, pretty girl on social media.

And they’re actually a little tired that everyone thinks that’s all they’re doing. I’m way more interested in the question you just asked, which is what are actually the helpful tools for her to make healthy choices for herself and feel some sense of agency in this dynamic. I think it surprised me how much of my own healing was going to happen and how much I needed to write this to heal myself.

[00:04:56] Gabby: Hi everyone. Welcome to the show. I’m really excited about this one. We’re going to be talking with Chelsey Goodan, author of “Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls.” As somebody with three daughters, I’m especially interested in this. And if you’re concerned about how social media is impacting your children and let’s face it, who isn’t, then this is the podcast for you.

It’s a salient topic right now. I mean, Congress is currently debating a de facto ban on Tik TOK local state legislatures are passing new laws that restrict social media access for children. And it seems like every day, a new study comes out showing how social media is impacting our children’s minds.

Leading to an increase in depression, anxiety, and even suicide. It’s a lot to manage as a parent who wants to raise independent children. And I personally don’t want to be watching over their shoulders with everything they do. So the question is, how can we balance curbing the worst elements of social media while raising children who are strong, independent, and resilient?

We’re going to be talking about this and so much more today with Chelsey Goodan. That conversation is coming up. Right now.

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Gabby Reese show

. And congratulations. How long did it take you to write? Is this your first book? It is right. So underestimated the wisdom and power Lord knows we know about the power of teenage girls in this house. Um, and so. Actually, let’s back up. Why did you decide to write this book?

[00:06:25] Chelsey Goodan: I kept having this one on one time, you know, tutoring, mentoring girls and everything out of their mouth kept blowing me away, how smart and wise it was. And I, in my world, prior to this experience, had just been dismissing and minimizing Squashing teenage girls is superficial and mean and, uh, emotional, crazy.

All these bad words that always are describing them, you know, because when someone has a baby girl instead of a baby boy, what do you hear? You’re like, Oh, you’re having a little girl. You’re in for it. You better watch out for your teenage years. And, you know, the girls themselves absorb that as criticism and negativity.

And. When I was listening and hearing all these wise things they had to say I was like, oh my goodness You need a microphone like I realized I felt called to just be their portal to what they want to say to the world their Microphone and their translator. So it’s less about me kind of coming in and saying I think it should be like this or you should do this and instead I just It’s like, wait, what do you need to tell people?

Let me

[00:07:24] Gabby: Let mehelp you with this. Yeah. I think the, the notion of being an interpreter be is important because I read your book and I’ve listened to a lot of interviews and things, and I thought to myself, okay, let’s say in a perfect world, a parent was a little more educated than another parent. ’cause usually we get educated ’cause we need.

Yeah. At least that was my experience. Right? Like you start getting in pain in some way. Yeah. You hit a, some turbulence and you think I’m ill equipped here. I need to get some, I need to get some tools and be a better parent or add and all these things. And sometimes you don’t know all your blind spots until it starts to show up because you go, Oh, I’ve never dealt with this before.

Yeah. Um, but I thought to myself. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s say you had a parent that really came in sort of pretty tuned up and then you have your kid. There’s something interesting. You can be still objective. Right. As somebody who works with them and is their advocate. It is so difficult as a parent to be, to be objective.

And you talk a lot about, and it’s so true, That something will be going on, especially something to do with a girl’s outfit or sexual, which is really all connected to sex and, and sort of their sexuality and them, you know, becoming of age and sort of all of those implications. And as a parent, you know, it is a, it’s so challenging to be objective.

Yeah. I, you know, I’m a great auntie if you know what I mean. So I thought, okay, you can come in at this from this perspective because there’s still that objectivity.

[00:09:00] Chelsey Goodan: Right. And I would say too, I don’t have, or charge, you know, a charge or a trigger around it because I’m, I’m, a lot of the book also is about, you know, lots of times that trigger and charge that we come into is from our own wounds, from our own teenage years.

And we’re end up projecting that onto the kid and lots of times the girl’s like, that’s not my story. Like, let me have my own story. And. A lot of the book, too, is about healing your own inner teenage girl so that you don’t bring that, you know, you do the best you can. Of course, every parent’s still gonna have something, right?

But, but the baggage that we’re all dealing with in our 40s, what if instead we actually helped girls not have those same types of wounds now and maybe we wouldn’t all be unpacking it later

[00:09:42] Gabby: on. Do you think, though, if a parent was pretty good at that, that still a teenager and a teenage girl would not have a different set of behaviors for their parents Then for someone like you, because that, that was for me, the other kind of question, which is, is there always going to be sort of some kind of dynamic?

Because ultimately at some point, I also think it’s so that everyone will leave and go out into the world and build a life. And sometimes you almost need that friction to be like, I’m out of here. Right. And the parents

[00:10:14] Chelsey Goodan: to be like her independence.

[00:10:15] Gabby: Yeah. So I, I was also, when I was thinking about it, when I read this, I thought, Oh, I’m going You know, is it, we can get close and maybe not damage them, but to also understand, Oh yes.

Like my husband always jokes with my youngest daughter. He’s like, listen, just the word dad or parent is annoying. I get it. You know, like, part of the role. Yeah.

[00:10:35] Chelsey Goodan: I mean, do you, do you think that is at And also, we’re all imperfect human beings, right? Like, we’re all gonna make some mistakes. Parenting is an imperfect duty, you know, no matter what.

And I have seen it play out. Way better. When a parent learns some tools to not, to approach their kid without judgment, uh, without criticism, just a genuine curiosity, um, no secret agenda. Like there are actual practical tools to build that dynamic with your kid and build an, a lot of honesty between the two of you.

And it does pay off. And yes, when she asserts her independence, instead of the parent taking that personally or freaking out and kind of grabbing on and trying to cling or control, there’s a lot of control here too. Instead, they can actually see it as a positive thing and be like, great, cool, she’s finding who she is in this world and feeling empowered to make her own choices.

[00:11:26] Gabby: Yeah, I’ll share some stories with you later in this conversation because I want to dive into the book itself. You went and interviewed hundreds of teenage girls and you sort of created these chapter names based on really words and topics that were, you know, Inspired by the girls. Yeah.

[00:11:44] Chelsey Goodan: And, and they helped me choose them too.

The girls were super heavily involved. It wasn’t just a one-off interview. They were involved in the editing and the choosing of the chapters that the, I really wanted to make sure I was doing right by them and honoring their voice at every moment. And yeah. So these one word chapters are things we all struggle with, not just girls.

Right? So it’s people pleasing, perfection, self-doubt, shame, beauty, power, feelings, you know, and sexuality and, uh. Those were the topics that kept coming up, and then I would realize how much it paralleled my own, again, healing in my own life.

[00:12:19] Gabby: You started the book, and this really was powerful for me, was it’s not that they don’t have things to say.

It’s that they don’t feel like anyone is hearing them or listening. Right. And I think, um, the idea of, um, Of just listening when, when you read this book, that can be, cause you get a lot of parents can go, I don’t know what to do, or I don’t have the right words. And really what you’re saying is. Yeah.

Listening is a really important first step,

[00:12:48] Chelsey Goodan: right? It is. Yes. And that’s, if anything, that’s probably one of the number one things girls tell me is that they just want to feel heard. They feel misunderstood. And the act of listening is a holding space without trying to fix, advise, solve, control. And so what I actually give words to respond with.

So, you know, if she’s like, Oh my sharing that she had a horrible day and you’re in your brain, well, you could have done this or let me tell you what you this instead. It’s like. Yeah, that sucks. That sounds awful. I’m so sorry I had to deal with that. And then that’s it. That’s usually all they need. But you can also just ask a girl.

A lot of the book too is I’m always saying, ask her, ask, Hey, do you just want to vent right now? Do you want, do you want some space? Do you want my thoughts on this? Ask her. And then she feels a lot of agency when she has choice in the dynamic of the conversation. And I

[00:13:36] Gabby: think differently. And again, I only have daughters.

But I feel like more, more naturally boys sort of aren’t as talkative as teenagers, but I find actually girls do want to tell you what’s going on. If you can. I joke that I, I say it’s like gripping the steering wheel, you know, you’re in the car. The car is the best time. Yes. Totally. So it’s almost like you’re not facing each other.

You’re sort of looking forward, right? That shoulder to shoulder. And they’ll start saying like, Yeah. Especially as they get a little older. Yeah. Friday night, my friend was, you know, doing this or, you know, and so then you think, well, was she doing that too? You know, whatever it is. Yeah. And, uh, I learned like grip the steering wheel, just listen.

Yeah. Good tool. Yeah. And you think, Oh, this is, this kind of sucks. I don’t really want to hear about how this boy tried to kiss you, but you decided not to, but I’m glad you’re sharing. But

[00:14:25] Chelsey Goodan: you know, it’s all the, it sounds like you built a safe environment though for her where she can be truthful with you.

I mean, not alone. You’re killing it as a parent. But so

[00:14:32] Gabby: I just want to remind, I want to highlight that to parents because it’s so uncomfortable for us. Yeah. Like you’re, you’re going to, you’ve created a book where there’s a very directive questions and talking about, you know, looking at it with curiosity versus a judgment or trying to fix it.

But I can tell you as a parent, it’s still, when you’re sitting in it, you’re like, Oh, so uncomfortable. Oh, it’s, this is a tough one. Yeah. But the alternative is 50

[00:14:57] Chelsey Goodan: times worse. Yeah, they shut off, shut you out, don’t talk to you at all. They live, they often carry these things in shame too. And, uh, and also that discomfort.

I, I would think we could all expand our ability to hold discomfort, uh, and especially with women and girls. So often we’re telling them they have to be perfect and likable. So when they do share something that is a more difficult feeling, like frustration, disappointment, anger, right? Like women aren’t allowed to be angry, but it’s a normal.

Human emotion. So what if we actually just let a girl be grumpy for a second because she’s a human being and Instead what the girls here is that there’s no space for those negative emotions because that makes them bad They absorb it as like I’m bad. I’m not likable. I’m not perfect and They have no way to process those feelings and then you know Most women stuff and repress and contain and it all explodes at some point in our life in some way or another You

[00:15:52] Gabby: Yeah, it does.

It’s, it’s funny. I was listening to someone who’s talking about in relationships. And I, I, I’ve said, uh, with my husband, I go, I, I actually don’t speak to anyone kinder than I speak to him. But in this relationship conversation, the woman was saying, sometimes it’s the flip and the guy said, well, why do you think that is?

And she said, because we just think they’re going to be there always. Right. And that we wouldn’t get away with that. If we talked to. You know, a police officer who pulled us over our boss or whatever. So we kind of control ourselves because we think, Oh, yeah, but it also, you know, it’s the reminder that if a kid can kind of show you the real deal, the real stuff, the discomfort, the anger, the frustration, whatever it is.

That you are actually creating this safe environment.

[00:16:38] Chelsey Goodan: Yes. It’s a good sign. It is. And it’s called, and it’s, I call it emotional safety or psychological safety. Both those terms work and, and the girls know when they feel it and, and it is different for boys. I have, uh, when, and also making mistakes, it’s a safety to make mistakes, right?

When girls make mistakes, they, they feel like a failure. It hurts. Devastates them. Whereas I don’t see the same thing with teenage boys. They’ll make a mistake and they’re like, whatever, they move on. No big deal. And so that’s a huge way. We can also increase capacity for discomfort

[00:17:10] Gabby: because then that would keep them or keep them open to trying new things.


[00:17:15] Chelsey Goodan: And that’s where we, you know, when we make mistakes, that’s where we grow. That’s where we learn.

[00:17:18] Gabby: Yeah. But I, I do. Do you think it would be safe to say Okay. Let’s say if you, you know, you, and this book has so many tools, you even have, you know, a list of words people can use, like if you’re trying to talk to your daughter about her feelings.

Words that you can say, like, certain emotions to help her sort of land on which feeling she’s having.

[00:17:40] Chelsey Goodan: Exactly. I include a feelings wheel in the back. Because again, lots of times on a feelings wheel, the center feelings, we’re limited on vocabulary. And actually, this is a really good tool for boys, too, because they really need to name feelings, and, uh, the center is like, you know.

Like that. Sad. You know, like words that we, when we’re in an emotional state, kind of go to. And then it expands into more specific words. And there’s a lot of research that supports that if you actually just name a feeling where it really feels that it’s been identified, you feel relief. And that’s all, that’s the only thing that sometimes needs to happen, feel the feeling, name it, let it pass through you.

And, uh, and then the next tool after that listening and not judging is phrase all the followup as a question because that creates that environment of genuine curiosity. So I, and then I, this is where I love to empower the girl. So she’s sharing something hard she’s going through. I’m like, What do you think the solution is?

How would you like to handle it? You know, how would you like to handle it? What do you need right now? Because then it helps her create that mechanism to check in with herself and be like, wait, what, what do I think about this? Because her own solutions are going to stick better anyway than us telling them what to do.

And then, As she gets better at this, she develops self trust, like, hey, I can come up with good solutions. My parent trusts me, so therefore I trust myself, you know, and then the third step is affirm. Affirm, affirm, affirm in a way, you know, there’s this whole compliments chapter that everyone didn’t really see coming.

Um. You know, we, we kind of do pretty generalized compliments, like, you’re amazing. And actually, it’s about really leaning into the specificity of like, that was a really smart idea. I wouldn’t have thought of it this way because you thought of this. And all of a sudden, they feel seen, and they feel heard, and they feel understood by the way that you affirm them, and that, again, empowers them.


[00:19:20] Gabby: for me, what that really highlights too is seeing your children as people separate from you and not just as your kid. Because they are growing up, they’re becoming young adults and they’re going to be actually better than you at certain things. And I think when you acknowledge that in them, they will continue to develop that instead of like, Oh, it’s my kid.

It’s like, yeah, and your kid might be a really dynamic. thoughtful human being that actually even looks at it differently than you do and you can learn from. Yeah. That’s what

[00:19:54] Chelsey Goodan: the whole book was. You asked me at the beginning when I wrote it, I learned way more from the girls than I ever taught them. And when I was asking, what do you think the solution is?

I was like, Their ideas were straight up better than mine. And I I’m pretty good problem solver over here. And I was like, Oh, Whoa, wait, that is a good idea. And then they owned it in a way that they made it succeed because it was their idea.

[00:20:16] Gabby: Girls are, I think really in their essence. And I say this as a high compliment, I think they’re pretty savage and I think it gets beat out of us.

[00:20:25] Chelsey Goodan: Exactly. Exactly. You know, that’s what kind of the book is about. We’re underestimating that they are. And we sort of, Squash through all society’s shoulds. They should look like this. They should do that. But they’re savage. No one’s used that word yet. No, they are. I love it. Yeah, and the truth. They are so good at radical honesty, which again is a chapter in here.

And they can tell when people are bullshitting. And they want people to be real with them. And we tend to squash it all out of them to put on a good performance of life. And I love what truth tellers they are.

[00:20:56] Gabby: So maybe I can play devil’s advocate just a little of course, right? Because we, it’s sort of like gravity exists.

Certain things are, you know, they’re just are, they are what they are. Right. It is what it is. Okay. So the other side of that is as a parent, I sort of think, you know, the world is hard and you have to go to work and eventually like think life isn’t fair. Right. All of these things. Yeah. So I think that the constant balance is between creating this safety and the space for them to explore, to, to make these mistakes so that they can learn for themselves, to give them this voice.

And then just to sometimes be like, yeah, it sucks. You got to deal with it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So we’re in there. Um, you know, it’s almost like, um, and, and, and we said earlier, sometimes we’re like, oh, they’re so emotional and you know, hysteria and all these things. And what I learned actually from a neuroscientist, which I was really grateful for is that you’re Your brain is basically going through a pruning at this age, right?

So you can remember everything perfectly. All of a sudden you lost your mind, right? You left your school books at home. You, everything’s cool. You want to kill yourself because there is a radical pruning going on in the brain. And sometimes I know it sounds silly, but having a greater understanding that there’s also a lot of biology in play.

Right. They’re developing their hormones. This is, this is real. Yeah. I mean, this is part of the chemistry at what point or what are, what are some suggestions you have for parents where she is being unreasonable? She is being dramatic.

[00:22:31] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. Yeah. Well. Um, I found too, by the way, girls love learning about psychology, mental health, biology.

They actually, again, not to underestimate them, when they learn about these things and understand the mechanisms behind them, that empowers them too, right? When they understand, Oh, well, my hormones said this, they don’t like things blamed on their hormones. They want to have the respect of the conversation of understanding.

And so, you know, if she’s being, you know, You know, unreasonable, which of course, again, everyone’s a messy human being. I find that laying the foundations, obviously at early ages on some of this, where you’ve created enough safety, where you can kind of call it out. I mean, they respect calling out the truth where it’s like, Hey, for me, I feel like you’re being unreasonable right now because of this and that you actually share your truth of how they’re your experience of them in that moment.

And if you’ve laid the foundations. A good foundation of a back and forth on that. I’ve had a girl really listen and be like, okay, well, yeah, you know, I hear you. Like they, it’s almost, I always commit to the truth. So if that’s your truth and your experience on them, actually you being real with them and not an emotional charge to it, but just being real, that will go well.


[00:23:37] Gabby: find. Yeah. And I think sometimes that means actually even circling back. I don’t think it means always in the moment, but sometimes They come at you and you’re just like, whoa, and you’re back on your heels. And then sometimes there’s a reaction. And, and I think, uh, I had something recently with one of my daughters and I was kind of reacting to something.

And I said, actually, what I think is I’m resenting something about a behavior here. That makes me think that this is going to be your character and that scares me.

[00:24:05] Chelsey Goodan: You’re an amazing

[00:24:06] Gabby: mom. No, I’m not. This was a moment. Listen, I’ll give you the list of all the other

[00:24:11] Chelsey Goodan: things. Own it. Own it. I want you to own your own awesome being a mom.

I’ve said get the

[00:24:15] Gabby: fuck out of my office. I mean, you know, I’ve done it

[00:24:17] Chelsey Goodan: always. But that conversation you just told me, how you found the words. to share that with her in a really real way where you identified your own reaction, your own need, your own, that modeled for her, what it looks like to have a healthy conversation, healthy relationship where everyone’s owning their thing, but then trying to meet the other person where they’re at and be real with each other about it.

[00:24:36] Gabby: I think the other commitment, and I know this sounds sort of over, it’s just an overarching philosophy, but as the parent. I’ve really decided I’m the adult. And sometimes that comes with being well, no, each time it comes with being more patient, more understanding. And you don’t go, you don’t say things like, I can’t believe she did this to me.

Oh, right. Right. So, so there’s this, you know, cause and you mentioned in the book too, about like with the women were like martyrs or were something else. And so the other, the other part of it is also as the parent, it’s like, well, what role are you in this? And I even say that to my girls, like, Sometimes my youngest will be doing something and I’ll be like, yes.

And I understand. But part of why I’m coming at you this way is I am your mom. Yeah. Like, which means I do all these other things too, but it also means I might have one perspective, a little different. Then every other person because I’m your

[00:25:33] Chelsey Goodan: mom. Right? You know, well, and I, I completely agree with you that, uh, the adult needs to have the elevated mindfulness of it all, which of course is so hard.

I never want a girl caretaking, a parent, uh, and that that, cause the people that asked me, I’m like, it’s, Oh, well, are you saying you guys should be friends? Cause they think, you know, I’ve had a friend, but that’s not what I’m saying at all. Um, no, the care should be directional toward the kid. And, but I am advocating for, uh, a respect that exists within conversations, where her voice has a place in the conversation, and that she is a completely different person who might be having a different experience than her mom, and perceiving things different than the adult, and to seek understanding around that first.

First, to always seek understanding first, whether you agree with her or not, will help her feel heard. And when she feels that way, she’s also going to like you more, she’s going to listen to you more. And by creating that first step of that listen, no judgment, make her feel understood, you’re going to have benefits everywhere.


[00:26:31] Gabby: I, I see that to work, you know, it’s like after you have a couple of kids, you get a little better, maybe, or you hopefully, you know, I always joke with my husband that like once the last one’s out the draw, they’re like, Oh, wait a second. I have an idea on how to do this, you know? Um, but I think there, it is very interesting when you not only commit as the adult, but you have to play by the rules too.

Right. So you can’t manipulate, you can’t guilt them because these are very easy, accessible tools for parents. And there it’s like an impulse, right? You go, we’ll be just easy. I’m going to

[00:27:02] Chelsey Goodan: hammer you. The guilt and shame. Yes. I mean, the Mount, there’s a whole shame chapter, right? I mean, that is, everyone is unpacking.

The girls feel shame about everything. Let’s,

[00:27:12] Gabby: let’s, let’s talk about that. So you sort of say there’s sort of three kind of top things. It’s, it’s shame. It’s the pressure to feel perfect. And it’s the relationship with, yeah, perfect and likable. And do you mention, so is it social media or that perception of dealing with social media?

I felt like, well, I talk

[00:27:27] Chelsey Goodan: about it for sure. And beauty, dealing with beauty

[00:27:30] Gabby: standards, yeah. So let’s talk about shame because it’s such an interesting, I don’t think a lot of times parents think about that. As far as what a kid is going

[00:27:42] Chelsey Goodan: through. Yeah, well, and teenage girls specifically, we can talk about just the sexuality conversation around it.

The, uh, slut shaming is a huge, huge issue in that they feel any expression of their sexuality at all. They, they can’t do it right. There’s no way to do it right. They’re either a slut or they’re a prude, you know, or they, they just have no room. to explore this space in a safe way. And as a society, yes, it’s not safe out there for them.

I’m a huge advocate, you know, against gender based violence. I’m on the board of a non profit that’s all about engaging men and boys in this conversation. But what’s happened is, We’ve put all the blame on the girls and all the responsibility on the girls, and you can look at it just with dress codes, right?

Uh, you know, I have so many girls who are sent home for a bra strap, and it’s like, are we, are we still that scared of a bra strap? And what it tells the girl, first of all, it tells her that her body is dangerous, that she’s responsible for a boy’s inclinations, um, it makes her feel ashamed of her body or sexuality.

I mean, it doesn’t, it doesn’t do anything good is what I have learned. Right. And so talking to the girls. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s like how can we actually put the onus on boys to also be sexually responsible and so on. And, you know, only 11 states require that the sex education curriculum teaches consent. Only 11 states teach consent.

So we’re not, we’re failing our boys too, right? Like I’m not, Mad or angry, I’m not trying to blame them. I actually think the entire system isn’t supporting healthy conversations around this space. And so when a teenage girl coming into her sexual identity and trying to explore it, and instead all she hears from the world is, this is dangerous, you’re bad.

It’s, I mean, most adult women I know, all of them are unpacking some type of sexual shame.

[00:29:28] Gabby: Yeah, it is interesting. So from, again, coming from a performance side of things, I look at a lot of things from biology and, um, I have taken testosterone for, uh, hormone supplementation. And by the way, I just want you to know it does make you feel different.

You know, I, I, I think there’s, I think there’s a few obvious reasons and maybe it’s educating the girls this way where, for example, because they do have the biological responsibility of the one who would get pregnant. That’s probably why everyone’s like, it’s dangerous. Instead of saying, listen, of course, out of the two of you, you’re the one who’s going to carry the load.

That’s just the way it is. If there’s an event, that’s what’s going to happen. But I think with the boys, it’s not only talking about consent, but it’s acknowledging. Testosterone is a very real chemical, right? And it’s imagine you’re 18. It is going nuts. And so what, what’s the way to, that’s the other thing that I think would be interesting is to acknowledge the, the sort of the.

The difference between the two and then saying to everybody, okay, now you’re responsible for your side of things. Well,

[00:30:41] Chelsey Goodan: I mean, we’re underestimating the boys. Boys are capable of managing this. Right. And, uh, but they’re led off the hook left and right. I mean, even in this book tour I’ve been on, it’s been really interesting to see how much people just let boys off the hook and put all the pressure on the girls.


[00:30:57] Gabby: you feel, well, do you feel though that it’s because all. And that’s always been the case. And then simultaneously now in the last 10 years, we make boys feel bad about being boys.

[00:31:07] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. Well, the call to men is all about what is healthy masculinity. Like, what is this new definition that where you can find that is a loving idea around masculinity?

Because there are tons of beautiful qualities around masculinity. But this, these constrictive narratives of you can’t be weak, you can’t cry, you can’t show emotion. You have to be in control at all times. They are hurting our boys just as much as they’re hurting the girls. So it’s not about them being bad or them being more like girls or anything like that.

We just haven’t given them a full spectrum of the human experience.

[00:31:37] Gabby: Yeah. There’s a great book about, um, um, of men and boys. And he talks about, okay, so we have misogyny, but he goes, but then we have, Immature masculinity and mature

[00:31:49] Chelsey Goodan: masculinity. Exactly. That’s what I bring up in the

[00:31:51] Gabby: book. Yeah. And try to, so I appreciate that you, you know, you, you, you talk about that.

So social media, I mean, any parent that has a kid, uh, let’s say right now from the age of seven to, you know, 20, they’ve been in the experiment. I think if you’re a little bit older, maybe if you’re 25 and older, you’re still part of the experiment, but you maybe had a little more breathing space when you talk to girls.

How do you, which ones do you see managing it successfully and what are they doing? Yeah. That it’s not eating them alive.

[00:32:28] Chelsey Goodan: I, by the way, I love how you just phrased that question because what’s happened a lot is that everyone just comes at it with so much fear, so much control negativity in a way that shuts the girls out of the conversation.

And. Um, so, because obviously I’m going to acknowledge there are so many harmful things about social media and it’s not going anywhere. No. So, I’m way more interested in the question you just asked, which is what are actually the helpful tools for her to make healthy choices for herself and feel some sense of agency in this dynamic instead of being a victim, which is kind of the narrative of society being like that.

It’s going to destroy your life. And that’s not what I’ve seen, actually. I’ve seen a lot of girls really make healthy choices for themselves. Um, and so again, I bring it back to the curiosity and the charge, right? Like, maybe, you know, unlatch any kind of preconceived notions you might have about it. And coming into it, I mean, I, I do have a little bit of an easier way in not being the parent here, but, um, you know, I’ll bring up a little, maybe

[00:33:29] Gabby: a lot.

Yeah. And that pink jacket and that smile, you’re way down the road from where

[00:33:33] Chelsey Goodan: I am. Right. Well, I’m trying to report back. We’ll take it. Yeah. And, uh, but it has so much to it. I mean, I’ll pull things up and I’ll be like, wait, what, so what do you think about this? Do you think like she posted this to get likes?

Do you think she’s trying to just be pretty here? What are your thoughts? And then when I say, what are your thoughts? I really need it. They can feel that from me. And then, yeah. She gets the chance to truly figure it out for herself, and when she’s respected like that, the girls usually come back with really like, Oh, well, I think that maybe she facetuned that, or she did that, and that, and I was like, How do you feel about that she did that?

And she’s like, Well, it’s really unrealistic, actually. I don’t think I could look like that. And I’m like, Yeah, how does that make you feel? You know, and I just expand the conversation with more questions until she finds her own way with it. And I, Time and time again, see girls deciding to put down their phone or change up their feed, by the way, I, I will constantly help them follow mental health accounts.

Like, you know, you can train things

[00:34:27] Gabby: or

[00:34:27] Chelsey Goodan: whatever, you can train the algorithm to a certain extent. And, uh, you know, if you just had 10 new accounts that they’re super into psychology accounts, mental health, feminist, uh, climate justice, you know, racial justice, like they’re actually Gen Z is super cool and how they are trying to also change the world.

They aren’t just. Sitting around obsessing about the skinny pretty girl on social media. And they’re actually a little tired that everyone thinks that’s all they’re doing with their time. Uh, these kids are actually quite inspiring. And, uh, I mean, the amount of kids I’ve had being like, Can I send you TikToks that are like feminist TikToks?

Because I just feel like I have no one to share them with. And I’m like, Yes! Oh my gosh, I love this, right? And then let’s discuss it. Um, because it’s also been an incredible space for education. And I know that can sound so scary for somebody, because you’re like, Oh my God, but what are they following if they’re learning?

You’d be surprised how kids have talked to me about the different trauma responses. They’ve talked to me about their mother wound. You know, these are 16 year old girls that have learned this off of that space. And then I do always want to give a shout out to the LGBTQ kids who have told me time and time again that their life is saved by social media because they, many kids who are in environments where there’s no one supporting them in different towns that they can’t, they don’t feel safe to come out and on social media is where they find community and kids where they feel like they can be themselves and no one tends to talk about how much, you know, the suicide rate is so high for LGBTQ kids.

So. For them to find any safe space or any sense of community is a really important thing too. So I know I just threw a lot at you. No, no, no. I’m trying to actually throw like just different perspectives. And I

[00:36:04] Gabby: appreciate that because the other thing is, you know, that, that expression, like you don’t live in the world you’re born into, right.

At me, at the years I was born, I didn’t grow up facing any of this stuff. So your brain is hardwired, you know, you have to continuously stay curious and open and see and sort of question your own beliefs because otherwise you do, you get stuck. Um, but I, I have to say again, maybe this comes with sports is there are times that my hope for my girls is that, and, and maybe this is off mark.

That’s why I’m bringing it up is that they do have resilience because life is hard and that, you know, the notion of observing your feelings and 16 year old to do that. This is something you practice a long time and you’re stoked if you get it in moments in your forties. I’m not suggesting that, but.

That also having a conversation around, sometimes you’re going to have feelings, but we don’t have to label it. We don’t have to think it’s, um, you know, there’s a difference between feeling anxious and having anxiety, right? Like there’s some, some differentiation. So

[00:37:14] Chelsey Goodan: mine doesn’t solidify into your identity.

And so my hope for this group, and I’m glad that they are more aware. And I do find it, maybe it’s part of the over correction from where we were used to be, which is like, okay, just suck it up and do all these things. We’re a bit in the overcorrection. I think where it’s like, hey, sometimes some feelings, yeah.

You’re gonna address ’em. And some feelings like just let ’em just observe them. It’s not, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s not that it’s not a big deal, but it’s like there, I, I don’t know. And I, I’d love to get your perspective. Is there still a place, and I’m not gonna start parenting like this tomorrow. I’m not suggesting that, but to just be like, yeah.

Like, find a way to deal with it.

[00:37:51] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. And how I would phrase it Yes. And how I’d phrase it is like, Hey, I, I trust your ability to deal with this. I would actually verbalize the trust you have for her to figure it out and handle it. Because then she’ll hear like, oh, okay, so this is my responsibility, like my parent trusts me to be, it feels like I’m capable of this, let me own that.

And that I have found goes really well too. And I, I, what I’m hearing, I think of what I’m hearing her say is, are we indulging too much that overcorrection and where do we find that middle ground? And I always bring it back to just check in with your daughter, ask her, because every kid is going to be different.

I know kids that truly are incredibly sensitive and navigating that differently than the girl who can power through a lot easier. And so we got to find, Who that kid is. And then a lot of the book too is about authenticity and, and them having that room to explore their identity so they can actually figure it out for themselves and have that space where you just say, Hey, I trust you to explore that and see if you like it yourself.

[00:38:52] Gabby: Yeah. Yeah. And anytime somebody, I mean, I have three very different daughters. And I could walk into the room and if I had a work problem on my mind, I have one daughter that would take it personal that she’d think I’m disapproving or mad at her about something. And I have another daughter that unless I’m in her face.

It has nothing ever to do with her, right? So they, to your point, it’s also every kid is different, knowing the kid and knowing the best way, um, which is, which

[00:39:19] Chelsey Goodan: is again, just that curiosity tapping in to them and checking in with them and seeing.

[00:39:24] Gabby: So someone listening to this and they think, uh, my kids are a little older.

Is there a way it’s not, it’s not to revisit it, but is it, is there a way to open up these conversations even if they’re a little older and maybe you’ve been doing it one way and you think. I’m really going to give it a go. I’m going to try. Yeah, I have, this has been brought to my attention. I’ve read this book and there’s a lot of tools in it.

How do you,

[00:39:49] Chelsey Goodan: yeah, so I didn’t, the conclusion, um, I bring up amends and I did not expect to write about making amends at all until it just came up again and again, girls just hoping so much that their parent might, uh, Say sorry actually is what it is. And so to that, to that parent, I always say, first, ask for a restart, say, Hey, you know what?

I just read this book or I’ve been doing this. I’ve been learning. I’ve been growing and I want to, I want to restart. Like I want to do things differently with you. So the actually name it and build the container for you and the. And even if they’re in their twenties or thirties, anyone can do this at any point in their life.

And I find that if you actually intentionally ask for a restart and ask, like, are you up for that? Because I’m going to start doing some different things and you may not trust it because it’s going to be so different. And I need you to know that my heart is in this and I’m trying. And so by just asking that first, and then, What amends, you know, the girls, you can read their quotes back to back, it was so gut wrenching of them saying I’ll never get an apology from my father, it’s the only thing I’ve ever wanted, you know, I’ve had to learn how to live my life without ever expecting it because I know it’s never going to come, like, really intense.

And by making amends, where you just say, it could be as simple as like, Hey, you know, I feel like I haven’t been listening to you. I haven’t really understood who you are and I am sorry for that. Is there something I can do better? You know, it just could be that it could be a specific thing. It could be like, Hey, You know, we didn’t handle the divorce very well.

Like, is there anything I can make amends around that for, that you need me to hear about your experience of it? Because it’s a really humble, receiving place. It is not defensive in any way, shape, or form. So you gotta make sure you’re right with yourself. If you feel like you’re gonna go into this conversation with defensiveness at all, then you’re not ready for it.

Because you need to be completely ready to hear what that kid has to say, and then reflect it back and say, okay. I’m so sorry that that happened. And it makes sense that you, that upset you, you know, and validate their experience of it. And by the way, every parent has had something right where, again, I bring it back to our humanity and our imperfections.

Perfect doesn’t exist. And I tell the girls that all the time, um, and what happens is when that amends happens is it clears the slate, it clears the air. It also teaches her how to be. Models for her being a responsible, healthy adult, and then she feels more safe to also say sorry on her own for her own stuff and take responsibility because no one’s constantly on defense about things.

[00:42:18] Gabby: Learning to apologize is a very, it’s a lot harder than one would think. And, and it’s, it’s almost having to be with somebody who’s safe enough that you can humble out and say, I’ve really blown it. I’m sorry. Um, but once you learn, it really can save you so much time. It’s so to say, sorry, I was wrong. Can I just think it’s one of the most liberating things that there is.

Yes. And

[00:42:43] Chelsey Goodan: I themed the conclusion liberation. I just got chills when you just said that because a lot of people haven’t always made the exact connection, but you’re right. When you humble into just apologizing and clearing the air and truly then being in a place of honest connection with somebody, not over there with each having their own stories going on inside their head, it’s liberating.

That’s exactly what it

[00:43:03] Gabby: is. So let’s, let’s go a little deeper into this, into the sex conversation, because I think, you know, what are parents afraid of? Okay. Getting into cars. Cause you know, it’s anything that has a very long term impact possibility, things where they can get hurt or other. And you know, it’s funny, I was a teenage girl, so I remember.

And I also think I always joke that with my husband that I’m like, Hey Laird, like one thing you have to know about girls. They are, they are differently smart and you’ll make really good liars if you try to box them. You just will.

[00:43:38] Chelsey Goodan: So their, yeah, their ability to have radical honesty and their ability to then know how to manipulate it.

Yes. I was a teenage girl.

[00:43:44] Gabby: Yeah, of course. And so, um, my youngest, um, and again, we’ve been, we’ve been tenderized a little bit by the process. So we’re, it’s, you know, you kind of do it maybe a little more fluidly. Yeah. But she’s, you know, six one, she’s an attractive girl. She’ll go out in a skirt or dress.

That’s pretty short, you know? And, and I said, okay, well, first of all, if it wasn’t on her, it would be in her purse or her girlfriend’s house. So she’s showing us what she’s really doing, which on the grand scheme of things, I know it’s uncomfortable to know it as a parent, but you do want to know. Yeah.

It’s just like, It is what it is. Right. So, and then I do think, and I, again, I’d love to know what you think about this. I think when a girl starts going through puberty and starts developing, I liken it to getting a new car and you’re sort of like, wait, what happens when I put my foot on the gas, right?

Cause you walk around people all of a sudden reacting to you. It’s different. You’re learning to know about yourself. You’re learning yourself in this new being this new body. Exactly. You’re becoming a sexual creature. Um, you know, it’s just a whole other situation. So if you’re. A single dad, let’s say, how do you, do you hope you have a sister who can talk to your daughter?

Because sometimes what if you have a teenager that’s like, ew, I don’t want to talk to you about this. Well,

[00:45:04] Chelsey Goodan: I’m always a fan of having some type of mentor and type of figure in your, your girl’s life for sex education conversations. You are right. That is a beautiful tool. to utilize. Um, and I also have, I talk about in the book, I had a really open, uh, relationship with my dad.

And actually when I started dating a 20 year old when I was 17, I told him right away and his response was, Oh my gosh, I bet he’s an amazing guy. You would only ever date a really smart and amazing guy instead of like, what are you doing? He’s too old. This can’t be right. I need to meet him to all these things that a normal response would have.

Yeah. If he had done that. I would have hid it in shame, right? And I had to unpack that baggage later. But he came at me with, Oh my gosh, Chelsea, I really trust your judgment on this. I bet he’s amazing. And you know what I did in my brain? I was like, Oh my gosh, is he amazing? I was like, my dad trusts me to make this decision.

He better be amazing enough because I want to honor and respect that. And uh, and it turned out he was, and my parents loved him and it wasn’t just some silly thing. And if anything, he was more mature than the stupid high school boys. That’s the thing

[00:46:08] Gabby: I’ve gone through where. For my girls, I almost prefer, but they’re not, they can’t, because of the law.

[00:46:13] Chelsey Goodan: Well, right. So keep in mind, I just turned 18.

[00:46:16] Gabby: Once you’re 17 and 18, it’s like, what’s the difference of 19 and 20, in a way? And I always tell my girls, I, in a way, I’d rather you’re with the If you’re 16, I’d rather you date an 18 year old than a 16 year old. They’re not going to treat you necessarily better.

They’re not going to be, uh, discreet. Yeah. You know, it’s like the things that you would hope that the person that is courting them Yeah. Would be.

[00:46:40] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. And so Well, to bring back to your, the clothes, right? Yeah. Like I, again, I’m gonna always bring it back to anytime they’re hiding anything. Yeah. It creates shame.

Mm-Hmm. . And that is toxic. I’m gonna carry with them. So whatever you can do to, to keep that openness, which just sounds like you’ve done such an amazing job already. Um, I like to ask a girl if you’re really worried about what she’s wearing and stuff. Again, it’s about creating this open dialogue where you’re like, well, how does that make you, how does it make you feel to wear that?

Mm-Hmm. like, what I wanna understand, like, why do you like to wear that? And, but you can. Again, this takes a while. This is a process. We’re like, I promise I’m not trying to judge. I actually just want to know and, and then support and even say, I want to support you in this because she needs to feel safe at first.

Right. And I know it’s so hard, but you’d be surprised some of the answers. Like the girl is truly trying to figure out that pedal that you were talking about. And why aren’t we giving girls space for that? Because. Their sexuality, everyone’s having, there’s no seemingly good stage for them to figure out their sexuality.

Like, we need to just open up all boundaries and conversations around this because I don’t see it going right anywhere at any

[00:47:44] Gabby: stage. Right. I think it’s something where The process of going through it is awkward, period. And I, I really got to the place where I thought, okay, all your weird stuff I actually want you to do when you’re younger and at home because we’re here every single night versus we send you off to college and no one’s there.

No one’s knowing if you’re home or not. I have

[00:48:05] Chelsey Goodan: a few girls who have told me that, that they felt so just controlled and all their choices, they had no of their, no choices of their own in high school and then they went off to college and they completely lost it. I mean, they had drug and alcohol issues and, and she’s since talked to me this one specific I didn’t think of it.

She was just like, I just wish that my parents had created more safety for me to make mistakes in a way that I could learn better. Instead, I just completely unleashed in a way that did not work out. Yeah. Parents are scared. We’re scared and they feel that fear and that fear is teaching them fear. Yeah, right And so when a girl she feels the fear herself, that’s not a good place to make healthy decisions either and so it what if that instead was a feeling of Self trust and yeah, like I can I have I’m a powerful being that makes healthy choices right because Yeah, I mean the fear narrative Permits literally every issue in this book

[00:48:57] Gabby: It does.I mean, fear is, is, uh, I think it’s one of the things that really take us down. Yeah. It really does. Um, And

[00:49:04] Chelsey Goodan: I say it with compassion, right? Like we’re all part of the same system and doing the best we can. And the, the self, like I talk about self doubt in there too. And that inner critic voice and helping girls understand that that’s not her voice.

That she has her own inner, true, authentic voice and helping her hear that. So it’s back to, again, if we’re only hearing a fear voice, she’s going to give a lot of power to that inner critic voice. But if we’re giving a lot of energy to her figuring out what, how she taps into what her inner voice is and her authenticity, then that becomes more powerful.

[00:49:33] Gabby: And then that can lead you, right? Yes. Like, Oh, what do I like? What do I think I might want to work at? Who would I like to date and sleep with? And who are my friends? And I think it is, you know, being true. You talk about that where it’s like being your own, your authentic, your real self.

[00:49:50] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. I always, I was encouraged to lean into your weirdness and I’m going to use the word weird specifically rather than unique, which often thinks of special or achievement and weird actually hits at an insecurity lots of times, which is a good, I always think it’s a good sign because that’s.

Yeah. It’s something where you know is really true to yourself and it’s like, wait, is that weird? Because for some reason everyone is taught to be normal and a lot of parents are always like, I just want my kid to be normal. And I’m like, no, you don’t, you don’t. Normal actually hasn’t worked out very well.

Like, like people who are leaning into just what makes them weird in this world are the ones that are thriving. And so, when I give a lot of compliments and energy and positivity to those weird things, the girls are always like, oh, cool, yeah, I do do that, okay, cool, instead of feeling like they should be something else.

And it’s kind of back to the people pleasing, too. We’re teaching girls and women to put other people’s needs before their own. And so that mechanism of them checking in, like, do I like that? Am I into that? You know, I share a story of a volleyball player in the book, I just realized that, a 15 year old Marley who had made the freshman team, varsity team as a freshman and was getting affirmed, affirmed, affirmed.

That’s another thing we love to do. If like a girl’s good at one thing, we just affirm them nonstop for that. And she thinks, okay, well that’s the one thing I’m good at, so I better keep doing that. And I noticed she was getting migraines and stomach problems and so stressed out on the volleyball schedule.

And her mom had played it and she Well, you know, was bonding with her about it or like a lot of pressure from her. And then one day I just asked her, I was like, wait, do you like playing volleyball? And she looked at me wide eyed. No one had ever asked her. And she was like, uh, well, I like that. I’m good at it.

I’m like, yeah, you’re good at it. I get that. I was like, do you like it? She said, I like bonding with my mom about it. And I’m like, oh my gosh, are you playing volleyball to make your mom or other people happy? And she It was like, Oh, and she completely saw it. Then I asked her, well, what does light you up?

What is the thing that you get excited about doing? And she talked to me about doing fashion sketches on the bus. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I know this sewing class on the weekends. What do you want to take? And she said, Oh my gosh, I would love that. And we were able to bring her mom in and to the conversation.

And she ended up quitting volleyball and ended up. Thriving in her fashion exploration and, you know, she could still be excellent, right? Everyone’s so worried that a kid needs to be in excellence at something and, but, you know, you actually can be good at lots of things and let’s find the one that actually matches your passions and your authenticity.

And I always bring up fashion too because people, adults love to dismiss teenage girls interest in fashion as some superficial flighty thing. But you’re more likely to have Many, many jobs are available in the fashion industry versus having a professional volleyball career. Tell me about it. Right. So like, actually I have plenty of girls in their twenties who have incredible jobs in the fashion industry.

Yes. They’re not like the fashion designer, but they’re super happy with what they’re doing because it’s a field that excites them and inspires them.

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well, I think you said something that’s really important to whoever we are is, is it’s not, it isn’t about excellence. That is that I think doing the best that you can or showing up for your life, but that it’s that your life reflects you authentically and excellence. What does that mean? And, and sometimes what the world will celebrate.

Someone could be really good at something that’s so quiet. Yes, exactly. But if, if it gives them that feeling of purpose and contribution and it’s like, Hey man, this is, this reflects me. I think if we could really celebrate our kids for that, I, I think it’s so important because By the way, if you were excellent at a sport, it, it isn’t going to guarantee that you’re going to be happier.

I mean, you know, Andre Agassi wrote a book and he talked about, um, how at every moment he, he was, he was very, obviously very good, but he didn’t really like it. And I always tell my girls, like, even though sometimes it was something I had to get over, And the ones that chose to do sport or not sport, it’s like, I’m your mom.

I’m not your coach. You know, it’s like, my job is not to push you into a sport. My job is to say, Hey, you got to take care of your body. That would be good. Figure that out, whatever that is. You know, you sound like

[00:56:25] Chelsey Goodan: such an amazing mom. I’m serious.

[00:56:28] Gabby: I’ve been tenderized. Let me just say that. And it’s either you learn or you die.

Right. So My oldest daughter’s 28. It’s like if I haven’t learned a couple things, but I think it’s, it’s, it’s also, it feels really important. This job for me of all the things I could do is so important that it’s like, all right, let me be a student, you know, to learn it. But it’s, but it’s an ass kicker because even though, you know, certain things.

I wake up at two in the mornings and I only have one at home and you’re, you know, you mind grind, you worry, you think, Oh, she’s, Oh, you know, material. Like that’s the other thing sometimes with social media, if it does feel like the kids are a little more materialistic, you know, because of the Ford facing purchase of that cream and this dress.

So you’re always trying to have these conversations about it’s nice. It’s okay to like nice things, but don’t covet things and kind of all this stuff. But it does. I don’t know if you can do the job without a little bit of. And I hate the word worry, but I don’t know what it is.

[00:57:29] Chelsey Goodan: Well, and they talk about worry in there, about worrying being perceived control.

Right. And what we think, if I just think of every circumstance, then I’ll think of the right thing to do. And it’s holding that space for discomfort. Again, that they are a completely different person that may make choices that are not. What you think is the best choice and but by that having that freedom to go along, it’s builds that resilience that you actually want.

That’s the space where they’re going to build the resilience instead of us worrying about every little way to protect them. And I get a parent’s inclination to protect their kid. I get it. I get it. But you can’t, you can’t, first of all, because they are out of your control. The only thing you can control is truly your own choices and decisions and what you’ve done that’s so beautiful as you’ve been like, I’m going to learn, I’m going to be a student.

And a lot of parents don’t necessarily do that. They have a more self righteous, like I’m right, I’m the parent. And I’ve seen that that humility to say, but to be like, okay, what can I learn from this? What can I understand about my kid and meet them where they’re at? That’s what we want. Most of all.

Connection. We actually want to hang out with our kid that we love. This kid that you love, like you want connection with them. And that’s what builds that. And that’s what I’m trying to give to people.

[00:58:38] Gabby: Yeah. And you, you do a very good job of breaking it down. And, and, you know, putting highlights at the end of every chapter, sort of summarizing and sort of highlighting, again, the lessons of each chapter, um, that I think just make it clear, more clear.

Now, you hear now more and more of the words affirm, affirmation, affirming. Yeah. Again, in a, in a desire to stay open minded, because I, I’m a, I’m like a, I’m a grinder, like I’m just the person who will push, you know, my background comes from like, you know, it, our generation was kids should be seen and not heard.

Uh, you know, those, so those kinds of things. And then I go into sports where there’s so much discipline and you just will it, right? Like I’m, I’m feeling these things. I’m going to override that. Okay. And then now we’re in a time of like, everything’s affirming. So we’re in the, in the between again, you go out in the real world, right?

You got to go to work. If you decide to have a family, there’s just a lot to it. That is challenged. That’s it’s hard. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think hard is a part of life. I don’t think it’s all good. And I think the more we get a relationship with discomfort and like, Oh, well, this is hard. I think it makes it better.


[01:00:01] Chelsey Goodan: a hundred percent. And so when I say affirm, it’s not about just making sure like everything’s gonna be perfect and great. Um, Um, it’s actually about helping a kid create a sense of wholeness in who they are. Because when you have wholeness and, and you don’t feel like some external thing is gonna make you feel better or whole, then you can meet all that hardship.

And say, okay, what, what’s the lesson I need to learn from this struggle right now and not instead absorb it as some failure and who you are and have it take you out. And so when I talk about affirming in the compliments chapter, again, it’s bringing back to that specificity, affirming with specificity and the weirdness, right?

And so I always say affirm with three sentences, you know, try to push yourself to do three sentences and you’ll see how it gets more detailed and more detailed and, uh, you know, more frequency and, and. I do say, try to find your enthusiasm, obviously, like I’m naturally enthusiastic in who I am. But I have found enthusiasm, teenage girls particularly thrive off of genuine like, oh my gosh, that’s awesome, yes, I’m into that.

Whether it’s the TV show they’re watching, or something they feel like Um, that, that what they’re doing has value. And so if you have to source it, you know, deep in your heart of like, cause I want it to be genuine, but it goes a long way because when we’re trying to teach them all the time, it’s felt as criticism.

Even though your intentions are so good and you’re the adult and you feel like you know how this is going to play out. They’re hearing your teaching as criticism, and no one has been critiqued into more self confidence. Right. That is what I’ve seen. It’s actually when they feel seen and heard and understood is when they feel that wholeness in a way that they can take on anything.

Yeah, that’s really

[01:01:42] Gabby: important. I have watched, um, and listened to a lot of things that in my mind, I was like, Oh, like I listened or watch a lot of vampire things around this house. So just so you know, I don’t know if I go, Oh, he is super cute, but no, no, that wouldn’t be real to you. No, no. But my daughter will be like, he’s attractive.

Do you find him attractive? I’ll be like, yeah, he’s attractive. You know, this is so good. So, you know, I love this dynamic. I can, I can hear my husband and I can hear it layered in the couch and it’s like, I’m like, Oh yeah, you have nothing to do with this. Don’t worry. You know, like,

[01:02:11] Chelsey Goodan: you know, watching a TV show can go with your daughter.

Yeah, of course. It’s everything because that’s when you can, you can open up all these conversations of like, well, what do, why do you think he likes her? Why do you think she likes him? You can actually hear her values and what, what’s interesting to her and

[01:02:24] Gabby: uh, yeah, that’s great. Sometimes it can be so revealing that you think.

Oh, I, in a way, this kid’s going to go through their bumps and I’m not going to protect them from it. I won’t be able to protect them from everything, but they’ll be okay because you will hear those values. I was saying to Justin earlier, my daughter was showing me these videos at dinner last night about this woman who is a public speaker and she’s pretty tough.

And she’s like, have you ever heard of her? And showed me and I was like, Oh, you like her because she was, was sort of resonating with what she was saying. Yeah. And it showed me something about my daughter. Exactly. Yeah. I was like, Whoa, you’re hardcore. Yeah. Like, you know, just this woman’s very direct and kind of on it.


[01:03:02] Chelsey Goodan: And so I would have probably then gone like, Oh, I think it’s really cool. You like her because she’s so directed on and that says that I would actually, you know, Give voice constantly kind of to those the traits and attributes. Yes, exactly. I talk about in the compliments chapter. If you have something going on inside your head, that’s complimentary to your kids.

Say it out loud. Okay. But

[01:03:19] Gabby: wait, let me ask you a question. Sometimes when you do that too much, not too much. I’m saying, I understand what you mean about that because then you’re being clear. And you’re also saying like, I recognize that’s where they feel seen. Yes. But sometimes you go too much. It’s like, listen, I’m just here to share it with you.

Like I’m not looking for like, do you know what I mean? Like they’re not looking for like your thoughts only to, right. Does that make sense? Like I was sharing this with you. I wasn’t, you weren’t, you know, telling me, you know, everything you thought about it. What, what about doing this book surprised you?

[01:03:49] Chelsey Goodan: I think it surprised me how much of my own healing was going to happen and how much I needed to write this.

To heal myself and how much I realized I was being a person for these girls in their life that I had needed and Wow, what a story arc, you know Really, you don’t you realize that you’re drawn to certain art or certain things in life because you’re playing out your own Story and your own your healing your it’s an act of healing and I think that I had no idea how much these girls were going to heal me.

[01:04:23] Gabby: Is there, if what you’re comfortable sharing, which Chelsey is, how Chelsey coming in versus Chelsey. How are you? What’s really different or has shown up differently

[01:04:37] Chelsey Goodan: for you? Um, I’ve stepped into my own voice and power because I also had to model for these girls. What I’m asking them to do. I mean, it’s a lot of this book is about how do you step and start owning your own voice, owning your own power?

That way you have to say is important in the world. And I, when I started speaking more and everyone was like, wait, no, that’s a good thought. I, it’s been an unfolding of like, Like, wait, you didn’t know that? I, I, I didn’t realize how much I had to say that could help people. And that feels, um, I’m going to use the word powerful because the last chapter is powerful.

It feels powerful in a way that now I’m owning it and that is exciting. And then the next thing’s expanding, the next thing’s expanding. So I’m actually modeling in my own life right now. I mean, this book’s exploded, right? Oprah’s Book Club is recommending it. I was on the Today Show, like things that you would never expect for a first time author.

It was like a tutor a few years ago, right? Yeah. So it’s, it’s been so cool to see how, um, me owning my own value and worth has created a huge opportunity to help

[01:05:38] Gabby: other people. Have you lost some friends

[01:05:40] Chelsey Goodan: in the process? Right. Cause once you become more attuned in your own or

[01:05:46] Gabby: you just, yes. Sometimes people don’t, Oh, we want you to do good, but don’t do too good.

Yeah. But also sometimes when we change our frequency. Exactly. We lose our friends. It’s just, it’s just what it is. Yeah. And

[01:05:58] Chelsey Goodan: you’re saying the right word because it has been a frequency. I felt like my vibration and frequency has changed.

[01:06:03] Gabby: Yeah. Do you have people who are like, Oh, yeah,

[01:06:06] Chelsey Goodan: yeah. And they don’t get it and they’re not, and I, I really try to come with compassion.

Like everyone’s on their own journey and we’ll, you know, I’ve talked about the acronym love L O V E, let others voluntarily evolve. So I might be sitting over here being like, wow, our frequency’s off and you’re not, we’re not getting each other anymore. Like that’s a low vibration, you know, when you’re over there complaining and just there, there’s all these different.

And I can’t handle as well. So as you said, as friends change, I’m like, I don’t know if I need that as much in my life anymore. You know, we’re a person who wants to keep me small and knew me that way and, and isn’t there to fully support who I am now. And so, but now I look at it with love, like, and it’s an act of love to let someone else figure it out when they need to figure it out and be on their own journey.


[01:06:55] Gabby: It’s, uh, did you notice, cause you did all types of demographics and cultural backgrounds and everything. Was there anything that showed up, two parents in the house, a single mom? Was there anything that was different, uh, or patterns that you, that were sort of unique in talking to these types of girls or not really?

Well, I

[01:07:14] Chelsey Goodan: think that’s what has been. I mean, it was years ago. I started volunteering my time too because it didn’t sit right with me that I was only getting paid to help girls. And so I started volunteering for, uh, mentor girls from underserved communities. And that was actually kind of the revelation moment of like, Oh, they’re dealing with so many of the same things.

Um, and. So, a lot of the overall advice that really pertains to all girls, that has been my experience. And of course, there, you know, if we talk about an intersectional lens to this, right, there are different layers of oppression that everybody’s going to face, whether it’s socioeconomic or racial. And, um, I, as much as I would love to dive into those details, you know, there’s not the space for that in this book, but, um, you know, there, being able to show up for a girl in her.

Like maybe a more specific struggle, struggle like that where she can’t afford something or, um, that was Thankfully I had I’ve have a very much a background in activism, social justice activism, gender justice, racial justice And so that helped me really meet them in the way that and support them in the way they need and so maybe that’s like A different book.

I don’t know. Yeah, and there there was things like Where I had to, um, especially with my girls who are of color of different races and call out that like, I’m a, I’m a white person that needs to learn to and unpack these things. And actually I’m part of the problem of like figuring out I’m the dominant group that holds the power.

Like how can I change that for you to better serve your needs the same way a woman would look to a man, man is the men have the dominant power in so many ways. So therefore we have to look to them to help change the narrative. And so there was a lot of. Juggling those different, uh, I’m not, I’m not, I don’t know if I’m saying it exactly right.

All the different dynamics. Different dynamics. Yeah. I was super sensitive.

[01:09:07] Gabby: Was there any pattern that showed up where it was a girl who had two parents, let’s say, you know, somewhat functional, whatever that means. Like nothing obvious, like where she’s being, you know, having stuff going on. Were there any patterns that showed up?

differently. Um, you know, is it a hierarchal needs? Like what? Yes. Okay. Sorry.

[01:09:25] Chelsey Goodan: You know, I’m going to say a positive one that I don’t think people will see coming is divorced parents that have equal custody. I saw a lot of benefits of it. I know. And, uh, I saw the dads way more involved in their daughter’s lives and the daughter benefit from that.

And it’s interesting because that’s what I experienced from divorced parents and super involved dad, but it was. So interesting to see it in the girls and how it showed up as beautiful. I mean, most of the time I was always scheduling with the mom and when the parents were together, but when they were divorced, the dad had to schedule to, I had to figure out being at the house and there was something that just made the girl feel cared for and involved in her life in a different way.


[01:10:03] Gabby: why I wanted to bring it up because as somebody I don’t, I’m still with my you know, um, I do tell my friends that if they end up divorced. I see develop things and developmental things that are actually positive. And I’m not saying in net net, it’s better. I’m just saying if we, if you’re in a situation and you want to look to the positive.

Um, I even think sometimes there’s an intimacy between a child and a parent that’s stronger when they’re single parents, because

[01:10:32] Chelsey Goodan: you go on trips together, just the two of you more often. Yeah. It’s just the whole family. Yeah.

[01:10:37] Gabby: Like I’m, you know, I’m, I’m in a partnership and we have a strong relationship and my girls, that gives them probably a certain kind of security.

But I’m saying if we’re going to look on the flip side. Cause it’s sort of like, what’s good about being married. Great. Focus on that. Oh, you’re single. Great. Let’s talk about what’s great about that. So if I am a single mom and I, I have, let’s say I have three kids and I, my oldest is a girl or there’s a girl who sort of steps into that role cause they just do.

Right. Yeah. How can that mom and she’s busy trying to keep the lights on and keep everybody rolling? What way do you think would be healthy for her to check in with a kid who she knows? Yeah. You know,

[01:11:17] Chelsey Goodan: I don’t know if I’m an expert on this, right? Yeah, sure. That’s a really hard

[01:11:20] Gabby: territory. Or just an initiative.

Or just some, a way to start a conversation.

[01:11:22] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. So basically it’s what we’ve been talking about is laying the foundations of having a really safe environment where the truth is welcomed. No one’s going to be punished or criticized for telling the truth because if she can check in with her daughter and say, Hey, was that too much?

I asked of you. Yeah. You know, are you, are you feeling resentful that you’re not getting time to do your own thing right now and can check in and she feels safe to tell the truth, like she’s not letting down her mom and doesn’t feel guilty and, and, uh, then that’s a win right there. That’s it. Everything.

[01:11:50] Gabby: And I think it’s, what I have seen is we may, at least when they’re younger, we may not be getting the best of them inside the house. Yeah. Right? And, but it’s the job to get them ready, to give them the space to know themselves, to make, do all the kind of as much weird stuff as they can. Yeah.

[01:12:11] Chelsey Goodan: Um, you know.

Well, because at home they feel like they can be messy, which is

[01:12:14] Gabby: a great thing. And so I just want to encourage parents because sometimes, you know, you’ll, you’ll hear, Oh, your kid’s so polite or they do all these things or they, and they go off then when they are dialed, they’re gone though. And you’re like, Oh, well I didn’t get that at my house, you know?

So it’s just reminding them. I think that’s probably the way it’s supposed to be.

[01:12:30] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. Because they’re, you’re letting them, you know. Be the kid feels safe to be kind of a mess at home. That means they feel loved by you. That is safe for them to be messy because you’re, they know they’ll still be loved.

Yeah. Right. Is that, so that’s to me a

[01:12:43] Gabby: good sign. Right. It is, but it’s just reminding the parent that it’s okay to, yeah. And, uh, so I’ll share this thing that I, you, you were mentioning something. So I have my oldest daughter, um, is my stepdaughter, but I’ve been in her life her whole life and, uh, she went through something and she’s an adult, like real deep and, you know, she’s.

Now she’s almost she’ll be 29 this year. Yeah. Yeah. So in her like maybe three years four years ago. She decided She kind of needed space from the family to work some things out on her own and I can remember thinking Oh, you know, I’ve you know, I’ve been there for her. We’ve always been close you know and she’s a great mom as well and I remember thinking, Oh, wait, no, you can’t take this personal.

You should celebrate the fact that you have somebody who knows that they need to do something that’s right for them, that they have the wherewithal to go. What is best for me right now is actually, I need space from all of you because I’m trying to figure some things out. And I remember thinking this is uncomfortable because I, you know, sort of think we should be talking more often.

And, um, I remember feeling like, well, no, actually you have given, you guys have all collectively, the parents have all given her the power to go, Hey guys, this is what I need. And of course, what happens? You stand for them, you float them notes and tell them you love them and they circle around. Yeah. You know?

And so I just, I think there’s a lot of arcs in stories of being a parent. And, uh, if we can have a little kind of suspended faith and knowing that, um, it, you know, if we can stand and be the adult for them and, and love them and listen to them, um, a lot of good things can come out of that.

[01:14:23] Chelsey Goodan: Yes. You’re, you’re so well as you have so many good thoughts and care about on this.

I really

[01:14:28] Gabby: admire your, well, I’ve been, like I said, I’ve been tenderized. I can tell you some other ways I chose to do it and how that worked out. Yeah. So I think

[01:14:36] Chelsey Goodan: the opportunities are Well, it’s funny, that’s like a beautiful woman moment, right, where it’s like, I also love when women are just like, thank you, yeah, I’ve done a lot of good work.

You know what I mean? Like Oh yeah. It’s so

[01:14:45] Gabby: interesting. I think it’s ongoing though. It is. It is. Like with parenting, I think you just go Okay. Yeah. We got to keep going though. You know what I mean? Because then they do become adults and they have other things.

[01:14:55] Chelsey Goodan: Well, I, I just, I’ve been, I’ve been experiencing this where a lot of people have been giving me compliments and I’ve learned that when you give a compliment, actually you want the person to just receive it.

You want them to feel that good energy. So I’ve been like, It’s like trying to be better. Just be like, thank you. Okay. See you later. And you mentioned that in your book. And so it’s not that I’m even like trying to go out on it, but I actually keep wanting you to receive my compliment that you’ve done a lot of good things as a parent.

And yes, it’s ongoing and it’s hard and we’ll see. And so on. But in that present moment where you just shared a story is like all, a couple of stories you’ve said, I’m just been wowed.

[01:15:30] Gabby: Well, cause those, those were, I sort of felt like if another parent was going, cause eventually you’re going to go through some of it, that if you just.

Reminded yourself like, yeah. You know, ’cause you said it in the beginning. We don’t owe our kid, we we owe them. They don’t owe us. It’s the only one. And I always tell my girlfriends and my kids in every relationship, you should ask, well also, what am I getting? ’cause you’re giving. And it’s important to be like, does this person inspire me?

Right. Am my totally. It’s very important to say, what am I getting? They’re really

[01:16:01] Chelsey Goodan: smart. Whatever it’s, yeah. Because then the use of your time and Correct. You wanna be intentional with

[01:16:05] Gabby: your time except with your kids. Yeah. You never get to ask what am I getting? Yeah. Yeah. It’s a one way deal. It’s truly a generosity of love.

So if I haven’t covered something, um, the shame and the perfectionism really hit home for me when I read that. Just reminding, cause I never think of shame. I mean, I understand about the perfectionism and I think we equate it to shame. social media, but it’s existed for a really long time. Um, but if there was something else that felt really important that you wanted to share with parents to

[01:16:32] Chelsey Goodan: shame that I share, that I talk about, cause a lot of people are like, well, what do you do?

You know, how do you get rid of the shame that’s inside of my soul forever and ever,

[01:16:41] Gabby: are we Catholic?

[01:16:43] Chelsey Goodan: And then, um, what I found and then, you know, Brené Brown is an incredible shame researcher and something I’ve really spent a lot of time, uh, sitting with is it’s pretty simple solution. Which is sharing it and just talking about it.

And you can identify your shame by, it’s just simply something you’re scared to talk about and you’re hiding. And when you identify it, find an environment where you can bring it to light. You know, whether it’s a best friend that you feel safe with, a support group, whatever it might be. There is so much power for you to gain back.

Like, releasing your shame by just sharing it in an environment where someone can hold it and receive it and not make you feel bad and just be like, yeah, me too. And actually the me too movement was a big part of that. You know, women saying waiting, me too, you know, hashtag me too. And everyone being like, wait, I’m not alone.

Like you went through that too. I’m not alone and, and we’re not gonna. We’re not bad because of this. We’re just saying it out loud. And we share in that had this huge liberating effect to it. Uh, and so the more you can find the people in your life where you feel safe to do that, the better.

[01:17:48] Gabby: Yeah. And I think it’s really important as a parent to realize that your kids are going to grow up and be sexual beings.

Cause that’s a really, you know, you change their diapers and then all of a sudden you’re like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. You know? And I remember one of my kids in particular, uh, she’s more creative. She, there was just some telltale signs and I was like, she’s a way more provocative person than I am. Yeah. Like I could just tell.

Yeah. You know? So. I just, I think that’s also important as a parent is for them to get a healthy relationship with that

[01:18:13] Chelsey Goodan: too. Well, right. And I talk about how words like teen pregnancy or STD or, uh, you know, those are all scary words, but actually the words that have been really scary for people are orgasm, clitoris and.

Pleasure. I know like this idea, but wait, hold on for a second. Right. Of don’t we want, you just said they’re going to grow up and be a sexual being. You do want this to be a pleasurable thing for them in life. Yes. And healthy and have a healthy relationship. At the point though, where I have to ask because it’s really.

And everything that’s being done is telling them it’s going to be bad and awful and so on and so on. And so I, you know, when parents are like, well, how do you talk to your kids about sex and so on? I’m always like, first, identify why you’re so uncomfortable to talk about it because that’s your story. And I get it.

I have been there. I have unpacked serious

[01:19:03] Gabby: baggage. You share your own story of 10, like 10 years

[01:19:06] Chelsey Goodan: of being in pain and having pain with sex and someone being like, Uh, you know, that being normalized, like no one really being like, Hey, no, actually maybe I would go to a doctor and ask about it. And they’d be like, well, you just need to have another glass of wine.

That’s literally what doctors would tell me. Yeah. It’s was so wild how much that was not treated as a, uh, an important topic to be talking about me, my own empowerment and seeking pleasure in this space. It’s just like, I just had to muscle through and deal with it. And how

[01:19:38] Gabby: awful is that? Muscle through your sex life, sounds like fun, but women

[01:19:42] Chelsey Goodan: are doing it.

I’ve really learned. I’m not alone in this at all. The more I’ve taught and here I am sharing something that I considered very shameful for many years. And now here I am talking about it in a super public way, because I know there’s somebody listening who feels needs that permission and Neal’s needs to feel not alone in it and know that, Hey, no, there’s, there’s hope.

Yeah. And I find that there’s very few things that actually. We should be ashamed of no, I think we will. It’s like probably all very pretty normal. Yeah. Yeah. So if I have forgotten anything that, you know, for you, it’s really been an important driver of this book. We, I just want to give you

[01:20:21] Chelsey Goodan: that opportunity.

Thank you. Well, I would say the last chapter power in how we characterize power and power has been historically characterized as It’s domination, oppression, uh, wealth, status, money, physical strength, and, and has been historically masculine just because that’s been who’s in leadership. And so that, those two things have been paired, whether they are masculine or not, like there’s definitely healthy masculine.

And so I have very much asked girls, what do you think the world would look like if we had the majority of the leaders were women? What do you think the world would be different? How would it be different? And I know that’s kind of over oversimplification of gender and I acknowledge that, but, but Their answers is what threw everything for me because they started talking about care and equality and empathy and generosity and all these things that they would see how the world would be different.

There’d be no war. It’d be peaceful. And I had to really listen and I was like, Oh, this is the world you envision. And that’s where I’m saying we’re underestimating these girls. The world that they envision could make a difference that could change our current patterns and narratives is something. So much better than what we have.

And so instead of us dismissing these girls, what if we actually said, Oh my gosh, yeah, what if this world that was more empathetic? So to give you an example, one girl told me, you know, when a person steals bread, the old solution has been to just throw them in jail and punish them. What if, you know, she feels as a female leader, she would say, Well, why did they steal the bread in the first place?

Let’s go fix that. Right? And so it’s a completely, they believe in these different approaches that we’re not doing and, and it’s often built on love, which is the most powerful force there is. And so I, I want to give attention to that because that’s where I want to, uh, it’s, there’s so many parenting techniques and tools and ways to help connect with your daughter in here.

And they also have an incredible vision that could change everything if we let their voices be heard.

[01:22:19] Gabby: Do you think, uh, you know what, I’m sure if someone hears that and they go, okay, but teenage girls and talk about it in the book where everyone’s like, Oh, mean girls or this and that, what is that mechanism?

Right. That teenage girls have where they are. They can be.

[01:22:36] Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. No, and uh, I, I, I do believe there’s a massive shift happening with Gen Z, which is a girl supporting girls, women supporting women. I mean, we’re not completely there, but it is way different than our generation where there was truly limited space at the table.

They really were only hiring one person at that, one woman at that company, and we all were competing for it. And we were taught to compete in a big way against each other, women were. Um, the Gen Z girls aren’t being taught at that level, uh, at that way. So when there, when there’s a mean girl situation, they’re also way better at compassion and mental health stuff.

So when there is a mean girl situation, I’m always https: otter. ai How do you think that is for her? You know, do you feel maybe she’s acting out of her own pain? And they’re like, Oh my gosh, yeah, that would probably suck for her. I feel bad. Like they’re so much better at compassion than I feel like older generations.

So again, back to a leadership style that shows care and compassion rather than we’re all just, you know, criticizing each other, mean and yeah, trying to muscle our way to the top. Uh, that’s where I want to change everything. And that’s the biggest vision for this

[01:23:48] Gabby: book. Okay. So I’m going to interview you in 10 years and we’re going to see how, how it all is shaking out.

[01:23:53] Chelsey Goodan: Yes. Well, you know what? My biggest dream for this book. Tell me. Is that it’s irrelevant. Becomes irrelevant. That I wouldn’t have to sit here and be advocating for girls voices. That we all have equality. They’d already be heard. We’d have a different, you know, there’d be a lot more compassion in the

[01:24:08] Gabby: world.

I like your optimism. Do you think, do you ever think you would like to have your own family?

[01:24:14] Chelsey Goodan: Well, you know, married, but, um, I have no, no one’s asked me on a podcast yet. Um, I don’t want to have kids and that might be like, Oh, cause you know too much. I’ve been in the trenches. I mean, I’ve been in these houses for 16 years, right?

She’s like, no birth control people. No, but it’s not that it’s, um, it’s, I never wanted them. And I get it. And it’s been a lot about more, I felt my. energy could be expended in a different way. And that’s where I needed to put it. And here I am, I’m a parent to a bajillion girls. I mean, quote unquote, like the amount of girls I have texting me on a given day to reach out for help and support.

I’m there, I’m doing my work to give back to that generation.

[01:24:56] Gabby: It’s also about the, right. It’s about contributing the way that’s authentic to who we are. I have a, my volleyball, my volleyball coach from college didn’t have her and her partner never had children. And I was like, yeah, but you had like 200 and.

So, I get that. I was just

[01:25:12] Chelsey Goodan: curious. Yeah, no, it’s great. I love talking about it. Because

[01:25:14] Gabby: then I want to interview in 14 years. Yeah. And then see how it’s

[01:25:18] Chelsey Goodan: going. Well, it’s funny. I’ve had girls. It’s interesting how many people say to me, Oh, well, who’s going to take care of you when you’re old? I don’t know.

[01:25:24] Gabby: I mean, who thinks about that?

I don’t want my kids to take care of me when I’m old. No, of

[01:25:27] Chelsey Goodan: course. Well, it comes back to that caretaking thing. Yeah. Yeah. People. So, but people think that the amount of people who’ve said that to me is astonishing. And it’s back to that idea that this kid owes you something and, but it is hysterical because I’ve definitely had girls say, well, Chelsea, I just want you to know, I’m going to take care of you when you’re old.

They just completely volunteered. I never brought it up. Just come visit me. How about that? Right. It’s an exchange of love, right? Like I’ve invested love into people and I, I’m not, that’s going to come back to me in the ways that it’s supposed to. I, I, let’s, let’s do this interview in 10 years and let’s see what type of, what type of how I’ve expended my energy that I had available because I wasn’t necessarily raising a kid to help change the world.


[01:26:07] Gabby: There it is right there. The energy you’re going to have Chelsey Goodan. There you go. Exactly. The book is “Underestimated: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls. And maybe you can just remind people all the places they can find you.

[01:26:17] Chelsey Goodan: Yes. The best, you can buy the book wherever books are sold and you can find me on Instagram is really the best place @ChelseyGoodan, and that’s where I do the most updates of everything going on.

And by, the, the book is really good for a book club, like a mom’s book club. It is. Yeah, because each chap, the way the chapters are designed, even if you don’t get the reading in, you’re still going to have something to say that week. And, and also moms of teenagers need some community of talking real with each other about these things.

And the other thing that I’m getting nonstop messages about is moms reading it with their daughter. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s not something to force on your daughter. If anything I’ve learned, the mom reads a little bit, brings up some topics and the girl’s like, wait, what? What’s that? And then she kind of looks at the few pages and can tell that it’s been vetted by the teenage girls, which it very much has.

And then you read it together and magic happens because you are all of a sudden talking about topics that you never would have brought up. And that’s, that to me is also going to be so healing for so many relationships.

[01:27:16] Gabby: It’s a great guide. And also I think sometimes to unwind some of this is a lot easier.

Than we think, especially when we have a great guide. So thank you for that.

[01:27:25] Chelsey Goodan: Aw, thank you. This has been my pleasure.


About Chelsey Goodan

Chelsey worked as a private, academic tutor for 16 years, specializing in the empowerment of teenage girls. Her expertise is sought after by highly influential families, while Chelsey also volunteers her time to work with girls from underserved communities. Chelsey conducts empowerment workshops for teenage girls, while also coaching adults and parents on how to best connect with not only teenage girls, but also themselves and others. She’s taught her curriculum in a wide array of settings including colleges, online programs, summer camps, and Mastermind conferences.

Chelsey creates psychological safety for everyone from teenage girls to CEOs. As a keynote speaker, Chelsey teaches communication strategies that make everyone feel seen, heard, understood, valued, and celebrated. With entertaining ease, Chelsey shares unexpected tools she learned from teenage girls that directly translate to the workplace. She recently gave a keynote on Richard Branson’s private island, Necker Island, as part of the ONEFUTURE event, attended by thought leaders around the world. Chelsey customizes her talks for parents, students, and corporate audiences, while also giving speeches for high-profile nonprofits, supporting causes that promote gender justice.

Chelsey founded The Activist Cartel where, from 2016-2020 she guided an influential, nationwide subscriber base to take political and social action for gender and racial justice. As a Board Member for the nonprofit, A Call To Men, Chelsey promotes healthy masculinity education that prevents gender-based violence and discrimination. Additionally, Chelsey serves as the Mentorship Director of the nonprofit DemocraShe, which supports and guides girls from underrepresented communities into leadership roles. Living in Los Angeles, Chelsey has become a trusted resource for many influential figures, where behind the scenes, she advises them on their political activism, philanthropic engagement, and cultural messaging.